J.-C.), général spartiate ;; Pausanias I er (-380 av. J.-C.) était, dans la Grèce du V e siècle av. On sait par ailleurs qu'A… use of the ancient Greeks without any sense of historical context, Sexuality and the body: using ancient sources to support modern ideas, Sexuality and the body: using ancient sources to support modern ideas | MotionBump Reader, Deleted sex scenes from Living in Love and Faith (4), Deleted sex scenes from Living in Love and Faith (3), LLF and IICSA, revisited (updated 20 November 2020), Deleted sex scenes from Living in Love and Faith (2), Deleted sex scenes from Living in Love and Faith (1), Follow sharedconversations on WordPress.com. Phaedrus, Pausanias, and Aristophanes form the trio of speakers who incorporate love with pederasty. In his speech Agathon takes an approach similar to that of Phaedrus, focusing on love's attributes as a divine being (i.e., the god Eros). The first point which he describe love in the Symposium was that, “L Eryximachus, Agathon, and Socrates give speeches about how love pervades all things and form a trio in contrast to Phaedrus, Pausanias, and Aristophanes. Love, therefore, cannot be possessed of every good quality—or else there would be nothing left to desire. In 407 BC, Agathon and Pausanias accepted an invitation from Archelaus I of Macedon to visit his court at Pella, where Euripides and other artists had gone to escape the instability of Athens during the final phase of the Peloponnesian War. Ancient categories weren’t the same as ours and ‘in a faithful same sex relationship’ simply can’t be applied. In his speech Agathon takes an approach similar to that of Phaedrus, focusing on love's attributes as a divine being (i.e., the god Eros). Au cours du dialogue, Pausanias est le deuxième, après Phèdre, à prononcer un discours sur Éros (de 180c à 185c); il y distingue notamment deux Aphrodites, l'une commune et l'autre céleste (180d-181a). Agathon was the son of Tisamenus, and the lifelong companion of Pausanias, with whom he appears in both the Symposium and Plato's Protagoras. Together with Pausanias, he later moved to the court of Archelaus , king of Macedon , who was recruiting playwrights; it is here that he probably died around 401 BC. Enter your email address to follow this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. Change ), You are commenting using your Google account. I’ve discussed elsewhere the range of different forms of behaviour that were around in the classical Greek world and which modern readers have too readily assimilated to ‘homosexuality’: an inappropriate amount of interest in personal grooming (seen, by the ancient Greeks, as indicating far too much interest in appearing attractive to women); temporary relationships in which one man (the erastês) was older and dominant with his partner (the erômenos) being younger and passive; male friendship with a strong spiritual bond but no physical expression; and men who preferred to dress and act in a way seen as ‘feminine’. Change ), You are commenting using your Facebook account. No women are in the room, because the only woman who was there – a flute-girl – has been asked to leave. Pausanias points out that while lovers are encouraged to go to great lengths to win favor, loved ones are discouraged from allowing themselves to be caught up in their lovers' charms. Il apparaît principalement dans deux dialogues de Platon, le Protagoras et Le Banquet. Together with Pausanias, he later moved to the court of Archelaus , king of Macedon , who was recruiting playwrights; it is … Agathon was the son of Tisamenus, and the lifelong companion of Pausanias, with whom he appears in both the Symposium and Plato's Protagoras. We simply can’t say. SCENE: The House of Agathon. Agathon was also the first playwright to write choral parts which were apparently independent from the main plot of his plays.

Agathon is portrayed by Plato as a handsome young man, well dressed, of polished manners, courted by the fashion, wealth and wisdom of Athens, and dispensing hospitality with ease and refinement. Un article de Wikipédia, l'encyclopédie libre. Free library of english study presentation. Together with Pausanias, he later moved to the court of Archelaus , king of Macedon , who was recruiting playwrights; it is … The host of the banquet was Agathon, a tragic playwright. Pausanias, ( Flourished circa 420 BCE) an Athenian of the deme Kerameis, and was the lover of the poet Agathon.. L'action du Protagoras de Platon se déroule en 432 av. Life and career. The dramatist who in classical times was regarded as ranking next after Aeschylus, Sophocles, and Euripides as a writer of tragedies was Agathon; unfortunately all of his plays have vanished. Pausanias (not Pausanius) and Agathon are important because they are taken to show that it was possible for two men to be in a long-term faithful relationship. By doing that the couple … Agathon est alors un meirakion (classe d'âge désignant les jeunes hommes âgés d'entre 14 et 21 ans environ) et il est présenté comme étant le paidika (aimé) de Pausanias[3]. All the speakers do not agree on the definition and features of love. Socrates is also present, as is Alcibiades, the notorious Athenian politician and general who played such a prominent role in the Peloponnesian War. Bizarrely, in making him modern, EGGS are believing what some ‘famous gays’ websites say e.g. In brief, Agathon finds himself forced to admit that love is a kind of desire, and something can be desired only if it is missing. The main source for Pausanias and Agathon is actually Plato, who in the Symposium imagines a conversation about love. Au moment où se déroule le dialogue, Pausanias est âgé d'une cinquantaine d'années environ[6]. Summarize Phaedrus’s, Pausanias’, Eryximachus, Aristophanes’, and Agathon’s view on the nature of love in Plato’s Symposium.Be clear and complete as to the essentials of each view. Plus loin dans le dialogue, le dramaturge Aristophane, qui intervient également dans le dialogue, fait une allusion peut-être moqueuse aux deux hommes[7]. Pausanias was a legal professional and Eryximachus was a physician. When, some time between 411 and 405 BC, Agathon settled in Macedon under the rule of king Archelaus, Pausanias followed him. But I’ve a deeper concern, and that regards something I’ve commented on already in this blog: the use of the ancient Greeks without any sense of historical context. The document proposes that “The ideas/opinions/statements expressed (in bold) are amongst those that members might hear articulated and which we believe can (and need) to be responded to. His boyfriend was Pausanias and they had a 10-15 years long relationship. Start studying Plato's 'Symposium' quotes. In brief, Agathon finds himself forced to admit that love is a kind of desire, and something can be desired only if it is missing. After, everyone drinks into the night and falls asleep, leaving just Socrates Agathon and Aristophanes. Thus, love itself cannot be as perfect as Agathon says it is. This ensures that sufficient time will elapse so that the loved one can test his lover's mettle. Eryximachus, Agathon, and Socrates give speeches about how love pervades all things and form a trio in contrast to Phaedrus, Pausanias, and Aristophanes. Leaving aside a different sort of oddity, the way of talking about ‘the Bible’ as one entity when it is a collection of works in different genres from different periods, there’s a complete disregard for the methods of historical study here. In 407 BC, Agathon and Pausanias accepted an invitation from Archelaus I of Macedon to visit his court at Pella, where Euripides and other artists had gone to escape the instability of Athens during the final phase of the Peloponnesian War. Whether we see Agathon as the effeminate man of Aristophanes’ play or the champion of love (only to be challenged by Socrates!) 2 collab’ Agathon et Onemizer! Pausanias and Agathon: a ‘same sex relationship’? Phaedrus, Pausanias, and Aristophanes form the trio of speakers who incorporate love with pederasty. 2 collab’ Agathon et Onemizer! Pheadrus focused on the virtue of bravery and Pausanias focused on Justice, one of the four cardinal virtues that Agathon references in speaking about the moral character of love in his speech. Pingback: Sexuality and the body: using ancient sources to support modern ideas, Pingback: Sexuality and the body: using ancient sources to support modern ideas | MotionBump Reader. Nouvelles oeuvres visibles actuellement à la galerie Pérahia! Together with Pausanias, he later moved to the court of Archelaus, king of Macedon, who was recruiting playwrights; it is here that he probably died around 401 BC. I’ll concentrate here on the claim about Pausanias (not Pausanius) and Agathon. Agathon d'Athènes (en grec ancien : Ἀγάθων / Agáthôn) est un poète tragique grec de la fin du V e siècle av. L'action du Protagorasde Platon se déroule en 432 av. Platonic Agathon is , at first sight, a person very different from the Aristophanic one. It’s not a separate example from EGGS’ comment on ‘Plato and others’. Above all he is exquisitely polite, civilized, and well-mannered”, writes Blanckenhagen (60). Both Pausanias and Agathon are present, as is the playwright Aristophanes. He is envious of Socrates and Agathon, as Agathon decides to lay near Socrates. One can feel the first sort for boys or for women, but the second sort is only felt for men. A boy should wait for the right sort of man, one who is interested in his soul rather than his body, and it is right for such a man to be given sexual access to the boy’s body. Ancient anecdotes tend to address only his relationship with Agathon and give us no information about his personal accomplishments. Ancient anecdotes tend to address only his relationship with Agathon and give us no information about his personal accomplishments. The great comic playwright Aristophanes was also present at the banquet. Moreover, we may suppose him to attribute the qualities of character and intellect, as distinct from the advantages given by age and beauty, to this relationship with Pausanias. The term ‘(pre) biblical times’ makes no sense to me; I wonder if they meant ‘pre-New Testament times’. J.-C. Biographie [ modifier | modifier le code ] Fils de Tisamène, il vécut à Athènes de 450 ou 445 à 405 av. La dernière modification de cette page a été faite le 29 décembre 2019 à 21:07. Pausanias est cité plus brièvement dans un autre dialogue socratique, Le Banquet de Xénophon (en VIII, 32-34) : Socrate y critique l'éloge de la pédérastie grecque faite par Pausanias[note 1]. J.-C.) était, dans la Grèce du Ve siècle av. The section of the document I have in mind is a potential response to someone expressing the view that ‘Scripture isn’t clear on a number of issues regarding human sexuality’ and it goes like this: “Some have suggested that faithful same sex relationships were not known in (pre) biblical times and therefore the bible is silent on this matter. The main source for Pausanias and Agathon is actually Plato, who in the Symposium imagines a conversation about love. Pausanias d'Athènes (en grec ancien Παυσανίας, actif autour de 420 av. Be clear and complete as to the essentials of each view. Pausanias d'Athènes. Agathon was the lifelong companion of Pausanias, with whom he appears in both the Symposium and Plato's Protagoras. In "The Frogs" (405 BC) Aristophanes had the god Dionysus proclaim Agathon "a good poet", sorely missed by his fellow Athenians. Pausanias est mentionné dans plusieurs textes grecs antiques. His absence became permanent - he … On sait très peu d'autres choses à son sujet. J.-C. environ, mais aucune de ses pièces n'a été conservée et on ne le connait qu'à travers les récits de ses contemporains. Pausanias believes there are two kinds of love, common love from Common Aphrodite and Heavenly love from Aphrodite, Daughter of Uranus. Pausanias d'Athènes (en grec ancien Παυσανίας, actif autour de 420 av. Pausanias (/ p ɔː ˈ s eɪ n i ə s /; Greek: Παυσανίας; fl. On sait très peu d'autres choses à son sujet. On sait par ailleurs qu'Agathon s'attira les moqueries du dramaturge Aristophane qui le caricature dans sa comédie Les Thesmophories sous les traits d'un homme efféminé qui se travestit et pratique une homosexualité passive[4]. Both Pausanias and Agathon are present, as is the playwright Aristophanes. Agathon talks about what love is, rather than what it does. J.-C., un Athénien du dème Kerameis[1], amant du poète Agathon. In “The Frogs” (405 BC) Aristophanes had the god Dionysus proclaim Agathon “a good poet”, sorely missed by his fellow Athenians. Thus, love itself cannot be as perfect as Agathon says it is. His boyfriend was Pausanias and they had a 10-15 years long relationship.’. Together with Pausanias, he later moved to the court of Archelaus, king of Macedon, who was recruiting playwrights; it is here that he probably died around 401 BC. The great comic playwright Aristophanes was also present at the banquet. J.-C.), roi de Sparte ;; Pausanias, (-393 av. ( Log Out /  Although Pausanias is given a significant speaking part in Plato's Symposium, very little is known about him. [1] Together with Pausanias, he later moved to the court of Archelaus , king of Macedon , who was recruiting playwrights; it is here that he probably died around 401 BC. (24 rue Dauphine 75006 Paris) Expo « Onemizer and friends » à la galerie Perahia jusqu’au 30 Novembre! Han optræder i to af Platons sokratiske dialoger, Symposion og Protagoras, samt i Xenofons Symposion. The host of the banquet was Agathon, a tragic playwright. All the speakers do not agree on the definition and features of love. But I do challenge the suggestion that we can map this on to modern relationships. Although Pausanias is given a significant speaking part in Plato's Symposium, very little is known about him.Ancient anecdotes tend to address only his relationship with Agathon and give us no information about his personal accomplishments. In "The Frogs" (405 BC) Aristophanes had the god Dionysus proclaim Agathon "a good poet", sorely missed by his fellow Athenians. Agathon was the son of Tisamenus, and the lifelong companion of Pausanias, with whom he appears in both the Symposium and Plato's Protagoras. Pausanias, Athénien amant du poète Agathon apparaissant dans plusieurs dialogues de Platon ;; Pausanias (-469 av. Love, he claims, is not the oldest of the gods—as Phaedrus had implied—but the youngest and most beautiful, with the ability to change shape at will. Pausanias of Athens, lover of the poet Agathon and a character in Plato's Symposium; Pausanias (general), Spartan general and regent of the 5th century BC Pausanias of Sicily, physician of the 5th century BC, who was a friend of Empedocles Agathon est alors un meirakion (classe d'âge désignant les jeunes hommes âgés d'entre 14 et 21 ans environ) et il est présenté comme étant le paidika (aimé) de Pausanias . Pausanias was a legal professional and Eryximachus was a physician. The history of Agathon, Pausanias and Euripides may remind us that, in the continuing debate about the norms of Greek pederasty, the experience of long lived relationships was not unknown. Ancient anecdotes tend to address only his relationship with Agathon and give us no information about his personal accomplishments. From each of these speeches the personalities and characteristics of each person are revealed. Pausanias est mentionné dans plusieurs textes grecs antiques. modifier - modifier le code - modifier Wikidata. Agathon was the lifelong companion of Pausanias, with whom he appears in both the Symposium and Plato's Protagoras. ( Log Out / Look not round at the depraved morals of others, but run straight along the line without deviating from it. He, like Pausanias , is unconcerned with heterosexuality almost completely. Both Pausanias and Agathon are present, as is the playwright Aristophanes. Recall that Erixymachus is a doctor, and is a follower… Phaedrus, Pausanias, Eryximachus, Aristophanes, Agathon, Socrates, Alcibiades, A Troop of Revellers. The tone of Pausanias’ speech is self-serving and self-righteous, such as his attitude when discussing public law and his views on specific good acts to be virtuous. Where is the real Agathon? Phaedrus, Pausanias, and Aristophanes form the trio of speakers who incorporate love with pederasty. The thoughts/responses offered are a resource from the (elected members of) the Committee to help reflection on the likely issues and questions.”. Aelian (2.21) and Xenophon (Symposium 8.32) refer to them as erastês and erômenos. Phaedrus and Pausanias deal with the ethical sphere; Eryximachus and Aristophanes with the physical; Agathon and Socrates with the higher spiritual sphere. Pausanias appears in the dialectic as one of the most generic though equally noble characters. Agathon was an Athenian dramatist (c. 450-400 BC) and he was gay. He was famous as an "effeminate" homosexual. Le dialogue de Platon où Pausanias apparaît le plus longuement est Le Banquet, dont l'action se déroule en 416 au moment d'une victoire d'Agathon à un concours dramatique organisé à l'occasion des Lénéennes[5]. On the Symposium . Nouvelles oeuvres visibles actuellement à la galerie Pérahia! Although Pausanias is given a significant speaking part in Plato's Symposium, very little is known about him.Ancient anecdotes tend to address only his relationship with Agathon and give us no information about his personal accomplishments. Love, he claims, is not the oldest of the gods—as Phaedrus had implied—but the youngest and most beautiful, with the ability to change shape at will. ( Log Out /  Agathon’s speech is indissociable from that of Pausanias, for Agathon uses his praise of Eros to place implicitly himself on stage, by presenting the qualities he attributes to Eros as those that he himself so obviously possesses. I think Christian writers need to do a lot better than this sort of casual history which treats all the sources at the same level and assumes a simple mapping between then and now. Agathon … Around … Both Pausanias and Agathon are present, as is the playwright Aristophanes. The purpose of the banquet was to celebrate this tragic poet’s literary success at the public presentation of his play (174a, 175e). The tone of Pausanias’ speech is self-serving and self-righteous, such as his attitude when discussing public law and his views on specific good acts to be virtuous. He, like all other participants of the Symposium, is a distinguished gentleman among Athenian aristocracy. ( Log Out /  Agathon introduced certain innovations into the Greek theater: Aristotle tells us in the Poetics (1456a) that the characters and plot of his Anthoswere original and not, following Athenian dramatic orthodoxy, borrowe… Together with Pausanias, he later moved to the court of Archelaus, king of Macedon, who was recruiting playwrights; it is here that he probably died around 401 BC. This, I think, is systematic of the casual use of history by some Christians, and it contributes to a rejection of Christianity, as something requiring believers to leave their brains outside the church door. info)) is the name of several people:. Learn vocabulary, terms, and more with flashcards, games, and other study tools. Giulia Sissa identifies the two Agathons as two versions of the same man, and compares the ‘platonic glorification’ of one Agathon to the ‘comedic denigration’ of the other. Tools Upload a file Advanced Search Newsletters Subscribe to Authorpædia. Agathon was also the first playwright to write choral parts which were apparently independent from the main plot of his plays.

Agathon is portrayed by Plato as a handsome young man, well dressed, of polished manners, courted by the fashion, wealth and wisdom of Athens, and dispensing hospitality with ease and refinement. It seems that they remained together for several years. Pausanias, ( Flourished circa 420 BCE) an Athenian of the deme Kerameis, and was the lover of the poet Agathon.. Phaedrus, Pausanias, Eryximachus, Aristophanes, Agathon, Socrates, Alcibiades, A Troop of Revellers. Love, therefore, cannot be possessed of every good quality—or else there would be nothing left to desire. J.-C., un Athénien du dème Kerameis [1], amant du poète Agathon. Eryximachus believes love is a bodily response. Sorry, your blog cannot share posts by email. In his speech, he distinguishes between “common” and “heavenly” love, arguing that the latter is felt between lovers and their boyfriends, especially when these relationships are focused on the development of virtue. The men talk about whether love between a man and a woman is different from love between men, and conclude that the latter is better because men are, simply by being men, better. Aristophane believes love developed from a … Pausanias, Athénien amant du poète Agathon apparaissant dans plusieurs dialogues de Platon ;; Pausanias (-469 av. Agathon was the son of Tisamenus, and the lifelong companion of Pausanias, with whom he appears in both the Symposium and Plato's Protagoras. I think not. 1) Phaedrus’ views on the subject of love was many, when professed his feelings on love during his speech he reflected many points. Pausanias d'Athènes (en grec ancien Παυσανίας, actif autour de 420 av. Agathon was the son of Tisamenus, and the lover of Pausanias, with whom he appears in both the Symposium and Plato's Protagoras. Also resident here was the poet Euripides, who himself had an erotic interest in Agathon (though by this time Agathon was aged 40 … Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Stub. I’m not denying that Pausanias and Agathon were used in the ancient world as an example of a relationship which went on for much longer than the erastês and erômenos type normally did. (24 rue Dauphine 75006 Paris) Expo « Onemizer and friends » à la galerie Perahia jusqu’au 30 Novembre! Pausanias en athenienser fra Deme Kerameis, var elsker til tragediedigteren Agathon. Sample paper on by Cheng –Ju Danny Lu: Cheng –Ju Danny Lu. Agathon was an Athenian dramatist (c. 450-400 BC) and he was gay. ( Log Out /  The suggestion that the relationship was unusual because it went on longer than normal, beyond the point when the younger partner grows body hair, is clear. Although Pausanias is given a significant speaking part in Plato's Symposium, very little is known about him.Ancient anecdotes tend to address only his relationship with Agathon and give us no information about his personal accomplishments. Aelian (13.4) and Plutarch (Moralia 177a) have an anecdote about the tragic poet Euripides getting drunk and kissing Agathon even though the latter was ‘about 40 years old’ (Aelian) or ‘already bearded’ (Plutarch). In discussing the virtue of Love, he describes the characteristics it is generally divided into, which the previous speeches have described: courage (Phaedrus), justice (Pausanias), temperance (Eryximachus) and he substitutes wisdom for piety ( Aristophanes ).

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De Tisamène, il vécut à Athènes de 450 ou 445 à 405 av -393... Til tragediedigteren Agathon same as ours and ‘ in a faithful same relationship. / Look not round at the banquet was Agathon, Socrates, Alcibiades a. Each person are revealed his praise of honor, virtue, and well-mannered ”, writes Blanckenhagen 60! The depraved morals of others, but then he adds: “ he is exquisitely polite, civilized and., very little is known about him Socrates while the latter was on way. Noble characters and 405 BC, Agathon, as is the name of several people....